LLL Group 2: Part 2
So last night my wife and I went back to the University City La Leche League group. At the end of the meeting I came away literally ambivalent about going back. We'll probably keep going, but I really hope that is gets better.
On the plus side, it is SO close to our house. The people who attend are people that we could actually run into going to the store or walking in the Loop. My wife and I have a good group of friends - mostly friends from college and from work. But so far we don't have any good relationships with people that we've met through Oliver. That isn't to say that the people that we see at LLL spit at us as we come near, but we don't feel comfortable calling anyone up to see if they want to hang out. People who live near you are a little easier to arrange a play group with. And I've been told that eventually Oliver will want to hang out with other people than dear old Mom and Dad.
It is also always interesting to hear a different take on the same subject - in this case breastfeeding. People who had difficulties with latch always emphasize the importance of latch. People who have had breast infections talk about the importance of properly draining the breast. And each new take can teach you something. Last night, someone talked about how overuse of Lansinoh can lead to bloody nipples.
This is also a new group. They don't have a lot of traditions yet, so there is always the potential of being able to make suggestions that will impact how the group works for some time. That isn't to say that more established groups aren't willing to embrace new thoughts - it's just easier to teach a new dog new tricks.
On the minus side, this is a group that NEEDS to be taught some new tricks. The leaders are very well informed people who like to talk. When conversation hits a dead spot or the group itself doesn't have an answer, having someone who knows what to say can be a life saver. But there were a number of times when my wife was trying to interject something into the conversation and was cut off by one of the leaders. That kind of behavior does not engender a broad based discussion.
The notion of a broad-based discussion was under assault from the get-go. At the beginning of the meeting, one of the leaders did a mini-lecture that lasted about 15 minutes. After she finished, she attempted to start a discussion cold. When the discussion sputtered, she and the other leader played topic volleyball until one of the other mothers jumped in. The discussion really started to get going at that point, but the leaders kept chiming in, sometimes over the contributions of others. Finally, at the end one of the leaders opened up for questions, paused a second, and then said that the group could break into social talk. A mother who had a question piped up and her question was discussed for a few more minutes before breaking up into social talk. If the mother had not piped up as she did, I can see her going home not quite satisfied with the meeting.
One of the things that I like about the other LLL meeting that we go to is that they have a couple of spiels that they have down cold. Whenever a new face shows up at a meeting, they'll give a brief history of LLL - starting as a group of mothers who noticed that it was easier to feed child number two than child number one and wanting to share that experience with other mothers - and the philosophy of the group - every parent is an expert on your own child and you should take what works for your family from the information presented at the meeting. Whenever a new or expectant mother shows up, they'll review the basics of latch and positioning. So far the UCity group doesn't do either of these spiels which seems like a real injustice to the new faces.
Positioning and latch are the most important parts of the initial and ongoing breastfeeding relationship. You can almost literally not go over it too many times. It is the most important information that an expectant mother could receive. Even if she has previously breastfed, there are important things that can be forgotten about the first breastfeeding attempts that require reminding. For example, my wife would start each session with a good latch, but because she was not supporting her breast it would slip out of Oliver's mouth as gravity took hold. A quick reminder from our LLL leader was so helpful in reminding her to support her breast. Now that is not as important since Oliver can fight the effects of gravity for her.
The spiel on philosophy and history is an important part of why my wife and I continue to go to LLL meetings. When we had mentioned to a friend that we were planning to go, she wished us luck. Apparently her experience with the group was that they seemed kind of cult-like. My brother refers to LLL members as breastfeeding Nazis. But the spiel put some of our concerns to rest. The history is important in setting the context for the meeting. It should be a broad-based discussion among equals not a lecture from the expert. It allows the group to listen to contributions from everyone. "You are the expert on your own child" is important when people are talking about the family bed and you have a very nice crib that you plan on putting the baby into thank-you-very-much. "Take what works for your family" is very important when you are considering breastfeeding for maybe a year and there is a three-year old being breastfed in front of you.
One of the other negatives is that I felt like the leaders were pushing some of their own agenda. In the opening monologue, one of the leaders was talking about how babies born from unmedicated labors do best at initial breastfeeding and how babies should not be separated from the mother after birth unless there are some serious health concerns. I agree with all of her statements but I think that there had to be a better way to present the material. Any mother who was separated or planned a C-section (probably wouldn't be at the meeting, but that's neither here nor there) would feel that her choices were somehow bad. The other leader while casting about for something to talk about, talked about all of the great books in the lending library. While doing so she highlighted Dr. Sears, a noted author who endorses "attachment parenting," which she then went on about for a while. Attachment parenting is the style of parenting that my wife and I (attempt to) practice, but it isn't exactly mainstream. I don't mind the leader presenting it as an option, but a lecturing expert talking about it pushes the envelope of presentation a bit too far.
What I'd like to see the leaders work on is the format of their presentation. First, I'd like for them to start the meeting off with a question. A meeting on the stuff that comes with baby could start out with a question, "What is the most useful piece of equipment that you were given as a shower gift? What is the most useless piece?" Or a meeting on nutrition could begin "What was the hardest thing to change about your diet when you were pregnant and/or after you had the baby?" The opening question serves to introduce the topic and get everyone involved. After the opening question, you can monologue if that is necessary, but the group is already somewhat involved. During an open discussion, a leader should have starter questions and statements should the discussion flag. But if the discussion is going strong, the leader should take a back seat unless bad information is floating around or information has been requested.
I'd also like to see the leaders develop their version of the spiels. It doesn't have to be the smooth spiel that we hear at the other meeting, but I'd like to hear it at meetings especially these early ones. It helps to set the tone for future meetings. I'd really like to see them give the positioning and latch primer, since most new (or re-new) mothers could always use the reminder.
Like I said, I'm ambivalent about going back. There are a lot of pluses and a lot of minuses. I'm hoping that the group eventually overcomes its minuses. There isn't anything that can't be changed.
At least until they start spitting on us when we walk in the room.
On the plus side, it is SO close to our house. The people who attend are people that we could actually run into going to the store or walking in the Loop. My wife and I have a good group of friends - mostly friends from college and from work. But so far we don't have any good relationships with people that we've met through Oliver. That isn't to say that the people that we see at LLL spit at us as we come near, but we don't feel comfortable calling anyone up to see if they want to hang out. People who live near you are a little easier to arrange a play group with. And I've been told that eventually Oliver will want to hang out with other people than dear old Mom and Dad.
It is also always interesting to hear a different take on the same subject - in this case breastfeeding. People who had difficulties with latch always emphasize the importance of latch. People who have had breast infections talk about the importance of properly draining the breast. And each new take can teach you something. Last night, someone talked about how overuse of Lansinoh can lead to bloody nipples.
This is also a new group. They don't have a lot of traditions yet, so there is always the potential of being able to make suggestions that will impact how the group works for some time. That isn't to say that more established groups aren't willing to embrace new thoughts - it's just easier to teach a new dog new tricks.
On the minus side, this is a group that NEEDS to be taught some new tricks. The leaders are very well informed people who like to talk. When conversation hits a dead spot or the group itself doesn't have an answer, having someone who knows what to say can be a life saver. But there were a number of times when my wife was trying to interject something into the conversation and was cut off by one of the leaders. That kind of behavior does not engender a broad based discussion.
The notion of a broad-based discussion was under assault from the get-go. At the beginning of the meeting, one of the leaders did a mini-lecture that lasted about 15 minutes. After she finished, she attempted to start a discussion cold. When the discussion sputtered, she and the other leader played topic volleyball until one of the other mothers jumped in. The discussion really started to get going at that point, but the leaders kept chiming in, sometimes over the contributions of others. Finally, at the end one of the leaders opened up for questions, paused a second, and then said that the group could break into social talk. A mother who had a question piped up and her question was discussed for a few more minutes before breaking up into social talk. If the mother had not piped up as she did, I can see her going home not quite satisfied with the meeting.
One of the things that I like about the other LLL meeting that we go to is that they have a couple of spiels that they have down cold. Whenever a new face shows up at a meeting, they'll give a brief history of LLL - starting as a group of mothers who noticed that it was easier to feed child number two than child number one and wanting to share that experience with other mothers - and the philosophy of the group - every parent is an expert on your own child and you should take what works for your family from the information presented at the meeting. Whenever a new or expectant mother shows up, they'll review the basics of latch and positioning. So far the UCity group doesn't do either of these spiels which seems like a real injustice to the new faces.
Positioning and latch are the most important parts of the initial and ongoing breastfeeding relationship. You can almost literally not go over it too many times. It is the most important information that an expectant mother could receive. Even if she has previously breastfed, there are important things that can be forgotten about the first breastfeeding attempts that require reminding. For example, my wife would start each session with a good latch, but because she was not supporting her breast it would slip out of Oliver's mouth as gravity took hold. A quick reminder from our LLL leader was so helpful in reminding her to support her breast. Now that is not as important since Oliver can fight the effects of gravity for her.
The spiel on philosophy and history is an important part of why my wife and I continue to go to LLL meetings. When we had mentioned to a friend that we were planning to go, she wished us luck. Apparently her experience with the group was that they seemed kind of cult-like. My brother refers to LLL members as breastfeeding Nazis. But the spiel put some of our concerns to rest. The history is important in setting the context for the meeting. It should be a broad-based discussion among equals not a lecture from the expert. It allows the group to listen to contributions from everyone. "You are the expert on your own child" is important when people are talking about the family bed and you have a very nice crib that you plan on putting the baby into thank-you-very-much. "Take what works for your family" is very important when you are considering breastfeeding for maybe a year and there is a three-year old being breastfed in front of you.
One of the other negatives is that I felt like the leaders were pushing some of their own agenda. In the opening monologue, one of the leaders was talking about how babies born from unmedicated labors do best at initial breastfeeding and how babies should not be separated from the mother after birth unless there are some serious health concerns. I agree with all of her statements but I think that there had to be a better way to present the material. Any mother who was separated or planned a C-section (probably wouldn't be at the meeting, but that's neither here nor there) would feel that her choices were somehow bad. The other leader while casting about for something to talk about, talked about all of the great books in the lending library. While doing so she highlighted Dr. Sears, a noted author who endorses "attachment parenting," which she then went on about for a while. Attachment parenting is the style of parenting that my wife and I (attempt to) practice, but it isn't exactly mainstream. I don't mind the leader presenting it as an option, but a lecturing expert talking about it pushes the envelope of presentation a bit too far.
What I'd like to see the leaders work on is the format of their presentation. First, I'd like for them to start the meeting off with a question. A meeting on the stuff that comes with baby could start out with a question, "What is the most useful piece of equipment that you were given as a shower gift? What is the most useless piece?" Or a meeting on nutrition could begin "What was the hardest thing to change about your diet when you were pregnant and/or after you had the baby?" The opening question serves to introduce the topic and get everyone involved. After the opening question, you can monologue if that is necessary, but the group is already somewhat involved. During an open discussion, a leader should have starter questions and statements should the discussion flag. But if the discussion is going strong, the leader should take a back seat unless bad information is floating around or information has been requested.
I'd also like to see the leaders develop their version of the spiels. It doesn't have to be the smooth spiel that we hear at the other meeting, but I'd like to hear it at meetings especially these early ones. It helps to set the tone for future meetings. I'd really like to see them give the positioning and latch primer, since most new (or re-new) mothers could always use the reminder.
Like I said, I'm ambivalent about going back. There are a lot of pluses and a lot of minuses. I'm hoping that the group eventually overcomes its minuses. There isn't anything that can't be changed.
At least until they start spitting on us when we walk in the room.
posted by mypetrock at 7:56 AM
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